Introducing Becoming mBODYed

In this episode of the Becoming mBODYed podcast, host Shawn Copeland and guest Karen Cubides discuss the concept of belonging and its connection to Shawn's personal story. Shawn shares his journey of self-discovery and finding his place in various communities, from his Southern family to the music world. He also talks about his experience with a career-ending injury and how it led him to start his own business, mBODYed. The conversation explores the importance of safety, authenticity, and creativity in cultivating a sense of belonging.

Becoming mBODYed is a production of and copyrighted by mBODYed, LLC, 2024. www.mbodyed.com
Follow me at https://www.instagram.com/mbodyed/ and https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61566020594221
The intro and exit music is Dark Matter by Carlos Velez, recorded by Tosca Duo on their CD Dimensions.
A link to Carlos’s music is available at
https://composercarlosvelez.wixsite.com/carlosvelezmusic/about-me.

Transcript

Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (00:03.62)
 Welcome to the Becoming Embodied podcast, where we explore how safety and belonging cultivate embodied creativity, curiosity, and authenticity. I am your host, Shawn Copeland, the founder and CEO of Embodied, a program dedicated to embodied education in the performing arts. I'm joined today by saxophonist, coach, and marketing expert, Karen Cubidis.
 
 She is the founder of the Karen Cubidis Agency, a one -stop shop for musicians looking to take their careers to the next level. Karen, thank you so much for joining me today and helping me start off this podcast.
 
 Karen Cubides (00:44.158)
 my gosh, I am so excited. We've been talking about this for a minute and I just feel like this is such a perfect avenue for all the work that you're doing and for folks to just get to know more about you, your story, the company, and just all the things that you're innovating. So I'm very excited to see what happens as we try this new thing.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (01:03.332)
 Yeah, me too. Nervous, excited, all of the above, yeah.
 
 Karen Cubides (01:05.386)
 How do you feel? How are you feeling?
 
 Karen Cubides (01:16.17)
 Yeah. I mean, as you know, that's how all the good stuff starts. So I'm very excited. So I was thinking like for this first episode, as someone with a podcast, it is really awkward to like talk about yourself and it can be like, you know, just how, how do I tell this story? So I'm so grateful that we get to have a conversation about it because I think it would be just such a great place to start by like.
 
 talking about the concept of belonging and why this is such a big pillar in your organization. And I think getting to know your personal story might really shine a light on the work that you're doing and more importantly, why you're doing it. So how do you feel about just sharing a little bit more about your story and that the word belonging and how that is connected to you?
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (01:55.236)
 I think that sounds great. I, I often say to myself that I have never really felt like I belong in any of the communities that I'm in. And I think that that goes kind of all the way back to my childhood. I, I come from a Southern family. My parents were from Southern Alabama. I grew up in central Florida, but I, I didn't know until well into my twenties that I was gay.
 
 and coming out for me wasn't a difficult, a difficult process. I have one of, you know, one of the great stories. My, my mother told me I was gay at the Thanksgiving dinner table. one year I was turning 20, 21 or 22. I'm blushing. and you know, she was like, you'll figure this out really soon and everything's going to be great and we love you, you know, and my, my best friend was in the, in the den with my sister and he.
 
 She leaned over and said, did my mom just tell Shawn he's gay? And he said, yep. So, you know, but that was when I discovered like, I finally feel like I belong in my family. Like I had always felt like an outsider and, you know, like something was slightly off, but I didn't know. I didn't really know what that was. And that that story for me got.
 
 Karen Cubides (03:01.034)
 you
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (03:24.196)
 repeated and repeated throughout my career. The sort of next iteration of that was when I was an undergraduate student and studying, you know, clarinet performance at Stetson University in Florida. And I remember kind of bumping up against this proverbial wall in all of my performance work. I get to a certain point where things were about 80, 85 percent
 
 and I couldn't get past it. And I was doing all the things that I thought I was supposed to do. I was practicing three, four, five hours a day with various ensembles. And but we were bumping up against my teacher and I were kind of bumping up against like, well, you're not practicing enough. Yes, I am. Well, no, you're not. You know, and and then one day we had a guest teacher, Frank Kowalsky from Florida State came in and.
 
 I performed for him in a masterclass and he said, you have a vision disorder. That's why you can't see the music. That's why you are struggling in the way that you're struggling in the types of things that you're having. And you need to go to a vision therapist and, and they'll take care of you. Everything will be fine. And so I went, and got all the, the, diagnostic work and found out that.
 
 that while I have a good IQ, I'd always been a straight A student in school, my reading level is at a sixth grade level. And because of the ways that my eyes work, and we also found out through all of this diagnostic testing that I'm also pretty strongly dyslexic. And suddenly I went, you know, it was like, you know.
 
 the curtain parted and I could actually finally start to figure out what was gonna work for me. How am I going to steer my education? And this happened several times again. I went all the way through into my doctorate. I managed to get a business degree as a master's degree and then a master's in performance and then got a doctorate and also did my Alexander certification.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (05:51.652)
 poised to graduate with my doctorate and go right into academia. And that it was looking like that. And then all of a sudden, the economy crashed in 2007, 2008, and there were no academic jobs. And again, I'm trying to I have to scramble. I have to find myself. I have to to put put into place my my business skills, which, you know, I did that.
 
 thinking, this will be a good idea, but I never really thought I'm going to, you know, kind of make a go at running my own business. Low and behold, here we are now, you know. So it was again that process of finding myself, becoming a full time professional musician, developing my reputation in the area with local orchestras and building a private practice in Alexander Technique.
 
 Karen Cubides (06:30.378)
 You
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (06:48.132)
 that eventually led to me starting to teach in academic programs and I built an academic program in Greensboro. And then gradually, the university positions opened up and I ended up in my tenure track position at the University of Idaho. And these...
 
 These are also reflected in the way that I feel in the Alexander community and in the body mapping community because my training process has been slightly different, non -traditional through mentoring, one -on -one mentoring. And I kind of do things differently from the norm. And so all of these experiences have been...
 
 you know, they seem kind of funny as they were happening. And I was like, I'll take that opportunity. Sure. That seems like a good idea. I'm not sure what I'll do with it. And here we are now having suffered a pretty significant performance injury and I have to leave performing. I have to leave my academic job and I'm now opening my own business and writing my own business and training program.
 
 Karen Cubides (08:01.29)
 Mm -hmm.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (08:04.964)
 So it's this sort of weird combination of life preparing you for your future and never really feeling like you belong. So you just carve out your own space. You make your own space for belonging.
 
 Karen Cubides (08:18.538)
 Yeah.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (08:22.084)
 Does that make any sense at all?
 
 Karen Cubides (08:22.666)
 Yeah, it does. It's so good. It's such a good story. I kind of want to go back though to, you know, that intersection in the performance space. And as you're trying to figure out what happens before, you know, your tenure trap, tenure track academic job, like what was that mental fitness that you were experiencing as you're, you know, ready to go into the world and then things outside of your control happen. And then
 
 you're back at it and you're reinventing yourself. And I just feel like you've just been re -imagining what it's like to be Shawn and to belong and to evolve. Like how did, you know, all of your training and, and, and the embodiment of your work, like support you in that process.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (09:03.652)
 So, you know, one of the things that we talk about as Alexander teachers is the role of habit and the importance of intention. And I think that probably that's one of the most significant learning things for me that I can set my intention and my body, my thinking, everything will coordinate around that. And so,
 
 There were several years where the academic, you know the academic market, it starts in August and September and then everything's finished by May and if you don't have a job, well then you go into a depression from May until June and then July you come out of it and August everything starts over. And I had to do a lot of work on myself. Like this is not my fault, there's nothing wrong with you.
 
 you do belong in this field, it's just gonna take more time. These things have nothing to do with you at all. And one of the greatest moments of feedback for me was when I did finally land that tenure track job and then immediately went on a committee for hiring one of our voice positions or something and seeing how a committee works on the other side of it and realizing.
 
 this, this, this really has nothing to do with you at all. Like it's about fit and it's about, you know, there's so many qualified people who apply. It's about, it's about the handshake. It's about finding the person for the department. And that has absolutely nothing to do with your personal qualifications. so that was, that was huge and eyeopening for me, but this was also this period of time that you're talking about, we're talking about, you know, 2007 until 2014.
 
 Karen Cubides (10:36.138)
 Yeah.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (11:01.06)
 this was also the period of time when I was introduced to the work of Brene Brown and, her podcasts, sorry, not her podcast, her, YouTube, Ted talk had gone viral during this time and, the gifts of imperfection had come out and, I was teaching at the university of North Carolina in Greensboro and the concept or the
 
 the topic of shame kept coming up in both the business classes that I was teaching, the career development classes that I was teaching, and the Alexander classes that I was teaching. And it really took, it took several years of me kind of saying, we can talk about this, but this feels very out of my lane. But.
 
 You know, you guys are bringing it up so we can work through this and talk about the importance of these concepts and how they affect you. But then the the audiobook came out, The Power of Vulnerability, where she combined the first three books all the way through Daring Greatly into a six hour kind of I think it was a course that she was teaching that she recorded. And in there, she she makes the statement of.
 
 talking about shame and she says the effects of shame on the body are the same as trauma. We respond in the nervous system the same way. And I just went, that's the connection that I've been looking for. Because we talk about trauma a lot in Alexander technique and how we can overcome trauma, but particularly physical trauma.
 
 But this was that crossroads that finally connected and I went, now I understand why, yet again, life is preparing me for where my work is going. And in particular in this area, my work and development in the intersection between Alexander Technique and body mapping and now safety and belonging has really been led by.
 
 Karen Cubides (13:05.29)
 Yeah.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (13:20.036)
 these types of experiences and the people who've come to work with me, they really have pushed me forward in terms of my own development, my own learning to make sure that I am fully prepared to work with the various communities that have shown up. It's been very organic.
 
 Karen Cubides (13:40.426)
 Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. It feels that way. but you know, before we get into more of embodied, like if you're comfortable talking, like, of course, trust your boundaries, but I think it would be helpful to know a little bit more about your injury. Cause I feel like walking away from performance. I mean, there's such a huge identity in that, your academic position, like just so many things are tied back to identity, you know, big T trauma, little T trauma.
 
 and then just your feelings about the whole matter. Like, how are you doing and how is that process going?
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (14:15.812)
 The good news is, well, before we even start that, I'm doing really well. I'm super excited about the future, but it's taken a lot of work to get here. The short story is around 2011, I developed a disorder in my esophagus right up here called the Zankers diverticulum, which is a herniated...
 
 pocket off of the, this is very technical, off of the cricoforengial muscle, which is a triangular muscle in the back of your esophagus that there's a weak point in the center of that muscle. And sometimes that, that perforates and creates a pocket between your esophagus and your spine. And that pocket will fill up with food and fluid, saliva. And because it's muscular, it's eventually going to
 
 to spring and retract back. And that causes an aspiration of whatever's in that pocket to be hurdled forward into your trachea and you choke. And I was struggling with this for several months, not knowing what it was. And it got to the point where I was waking up every 45 minutes at night because I was choking on
 
 just the natural saliva going down my throat while I was asleep. And I finally, you know, had to go to a doctor and it took several doctors to figure out, you have a Zankers diverticulum because this is extremely rare in someone in their 30s. It's much more common in someone over the age of 70. So we did the standard operations on them.
 
 and at least the standard operations at the time. And I had three of them back to back because each time I'd have have them within two to three weeks, it was obvious that the surgery failed. They just didn't work. And it wasn't until this particular round two years ago that we really found out why. And the reason why is because this this procedure was developed for someone in their 70s, not someone in their 30s. And the difference is that
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (16:41.476)
 someone in their 30s grows scar tissue really fast. And that was what was happening was the scar tissue was covering up the corrections that they were making in my esophagus. But of course, you know, I knew at the time I had had three surgeries and my doctor said, you need to pause. You've had three surgeries in about eight months and you need to give your body a break. You're not in any danger.
 
 come back in a few months and we'll, we'll do a more, difficult operation where they were actually going to open my neck up. well, I then ended up a finalist and a, in a job, and then I won that job. And then I went on the tenure track, you know, hunt. So take it, taking six to eight months off to have my neck sliced open was not a possibility.
 
 So I just endured for 10 years. And I reached a point about two years ago, right as we were coming out of, gosh, now I guess it was four years ago, right as we were coming out of COVID. And it was one of the first performances I was doing, first solo recitals. I remember it so distinctly. I was sitting backstage at Tennessee Tech.
 
 And my iPad was turned off and just sitting in front of me. So it was reflecting back. And as I started to warm up, I saw my neck start to bulge out into the into the right side of it. This pocket bulge out. And I knew what this was. I've seen it before just because of working with so many musicians and working specifically with musicians injuries. So I knew I needed to see.
 
 an otolaryngologist pretty quick. And I, you know, I called my my GP and said, you need to find me the absolute best if that's in Switzerland and I'm going to Switzerland. And it turns out she was like, well, there's an expert in this over at UW, the University of Washington. And it took three or four months to get in and then three or four months of testing to find out that what has happened because my throat
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (19:08.324)
 has been operated on three times, the muscular wall of the esophagus is compromised. And so because of that, because of extensive playing and the internal pressure from the back pressure from playing clarinet, it's caused another pocket to form. And so now there are two pockets in my throat. And because
 
 Karen Cubides (19:26.154)
 Mm -hmm.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (19:38.052)
 because the muscular wall is already compromised, there's strong concern that if they operate and remove these pockets, that there won't actually be enough muscular tissue to put back together. And so I won't be able to, I certainly won't be able to play. And I certainly,
 
 most likely will not even be able to swallow, that I'll have to be on a feeding tube because they're not confident that they can put everything back together for it to seal and I run the risk of getting like digested food outside of my esophagus and in the muscular tissue and then we have infection and all of that. So we're pausing, we're monitoring, at least we did for two years and then this past
 
 March, I, when I started really playing heavily again earlier this year, my symptoms started progressing quite quickly and I, I called my doc and he said, yeah, let's, let's pause everything. Let's put you on medical leave. Let's get you in here. Let's see what's going on. And you know, it's, it's Seattle. It takes a while to get in to see a doctor, a specialist. so by the time I got on the, you know, it took a month to get back in for testing and the
 
 progression was pretty severe. He was hoping that I was gonna be able to avoid surgery for 20 years. We're now in a six month waiting game to find out if I'm gonna have surgery by the end of the year. So it's looking good right now because I've completely stopped playing. But it's looking good.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (21:33.22)
 And yet even, you know, through all of that, I had to, you know, emotionally process the fact that I've been a musician since I was three. You know, I started playing piano in diapers and I knew how to read music before I knew how to read a book. You know, this has just been my life and my identity, like all musicians is.
 
 wrapped around the clarinet, wrapped around being a musician. I was expecting to perform well into my 60s or 70s. Didn't really have a backup plan. There were days that I couldn't get out of bed. There were days that getting out of bed was about as good as I could do. Like I just, I showed up. That's about as good as it's gonna get right now. And there were days that I didn't.
 
 Karen Cubides (22:27.114)
 Yeah.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (22:29.732)
 There were days that I just didn't get off the couch. but learning how, again, it's, it's this work, it's about where do we belong? Who do we belong to? You know, I kind of, I reread braving the wilderness, you know, which is all about, you know, belong learning, learning that we belong to ourselves. And then I'm processing and going, yeah, that's what this work that's what.
 
 Karen Cubides (22:48.074)
 Yeah.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (22:58.308)
 Alexander and body mapping have really taught me is how to embody myself, how to to live in my own body and my own tissue and listen to my body and know that, you know, I'm making the best decision for myself and for my own health and longevity. There's no question about that. If that means, you know, I will.
 
 live in Seattle and drive for Uber, then that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna be successful and that's gonna be just the way my life goes. But as I started dreaming about what was next and went through several different possibilities, at one point I was gonna go back to school and get a doctorate in physical therapy. I, you know.
 
 Karen Cubides (23:52.586)
 Mm -hmm.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (23:55.876)
 That's exactly what I need is another degree, you know, but I'm an academic. I love I love, you know, the institution and the safety of it. I realized that, you know, my my passion and my identity is really around teaching. And I I. Realized like I'll be happy as long as I'm teaching. It doesn't necessarily mean that I'll be teaching clarinet, but.
 
 my happiness is around working with people and bringing, enabling dreams is what I often say. You know, that's what I get to do. I get to enable someone's dreams and make them possible. So it, once I realized that and, and that was really who I am. Then the idea of starting my own business. And that this was really right about the time that you and I met about, you know, two years ago, two years ago, this month, actually.
 
 Karen Cubides (24:52.618)
 Yeah.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (24:55.332)
 and you have been so such an integral part of, well, you've been, you've been here from the very beginning of, you know, watching embodied take shape and, you were there right at the beginning of the idea of it. So yeah, it's, it's talk about a journey, you know?
 
 Karen Cubides (25:16.746)
 It's incredible. First of all, thank you so much for sharing about your injury and being so open and vulnerable about everything. I think it's so encouraging for anybody listening that is going through anything, whether it's an injury or just life to know that, you know, that belonging to yourself, peace and, and doing that work, is going to support the quality of life. And it's going to support that, that not just happiness, but that joy and, and getting your purpose back. And I think it's, I love how you also just shared that, you know, yeah, sometimes
 
 getting out of bed wasn't a possibility. Like I think that that's also so real. Cause you know, we look on social media or we look in the landscape of business and, and somebody with, you know, such a arguably young business like yours, it's only been around for maybe a couple of years. The fact that you're having such massive success, you know, makes it feel like it's special. but the reality is that I think you're, you're living in your truth and you're, you know, solving problems and helping others as you do the work as well.
 
 And I think that that's just so important to point out because there's obviously no overnight success and this wasn't even like a choice. and that's, I think the beautiful thing about this process in particular, share a little bit more about how even just the word embodied came to be the way you spell it. And, and just like how this is kind of this part of the story that you're in right now in present time with a company that's thriving with amazing partnerships and, and also just equally brilliant clients that are doing this work with you.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (26:39.684)
 Yeah, it's actually a really great story. As I was thinking about, you know, what am I going to call this company and playing with words and finding out, well, you know, you can't copyright a word, you know, you know, and just, you know, brainstorming and doing mind maps of things. I actually thought, you know, I know people who do this work. And it turns out that my
 
 Karen Cubides (26:52.618)
 Yeah.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (27:09.828)
 Partner's lifelong best friend is an artist and does marketing and advertising. And I called him up and I said, I need help. This is where I'm going. This is what I'm doing. What do you think? What can you do with this? And he said, yeah, give me a few days. And he comes back with this full proposal. He's like, okay, sit down. He's made this presentation. I was like, wow, who's this?
 
 Like, you know, it was like, you know, all of a sudden I'm in a movie or something. And so that was, that was really the birth of, of embodied and the symbolism. Of course, stands for mapping body, body mapping. The body is, you know, the, the center of the work that we're doing to be embodied is to.
 
 Karen Cubides (27:46.698)
 Yeah.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (28:06.244)
 to embody the tissues, to let the body represent our identity. ED, education. And then there's this, the funny little, there's two really interesting things in the mark itself. There's a triangle, which is indicative of direction. The triangle is the beginning of, or the,
 
 the tip of an arrow and it tells us where to go. And so we have the triangle in there to sort of direct your eye through embodied. But also because Alexander technique is all about direction and directing you and directing your thinking. And then the really interesting thing was in the word itself, in the body word itself, I initially went.
 
 wow, Jason, I love the fingerprint in there because that's such a, you know, that speaks to identity. And he was like, it's interesting that you think it's a fingerprint. It's not. It's a topographical map. And I went. I love it, you know, like I just I was like, yes, you know, so it it it represents so many things and it really speaks to how.
 
 Karen Cubides (29:13.578)
 Mmm, that's good.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (29:30.116)
 the work of embodied has evolved over the last, gosh, 18 months. You know, I initially, I initially started off thinking, I'm just going to train. I'm just going to do a traditional Alexander technique and body mapping training program. And, you know, again, because of the people that I'm working with, they have taken this work and let it in a completely different direction. And I'm, you know,
 
 forever grateful for the tremendous work that they're doing in evolving this work in real time. And so it's, I, you know, collectively we're forming an entirely new field, an entirely new modality that I'm right now calling embodied learning. You know, there's my marketing and branding background, but.
 
 But it's just, it's happening. It's happening in real time. How many times have we rebranded the website? I think we're on our third, you know? Because it just keeps evolving. It just keeps changing. It just keeps growing and becoming something more. All I can do is go along for the ride. And as you said, use all my skills. Some days are better than others.
 
 Karen Cubides (30:37.93)
 Yeah.
 
 Yeah.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (30:58.276)
 Some days I don't know what's happening. Some days I get off the phone with you and I have to revamp everything, you know? But it's exciting. It's really exciting.
 
 Karen Cubides (31:04.362)
 you
 
 Karen Cubides (31:10.834)
 Yeah. Yeah, I'm so grateful that I've gotten a front row seat to all of it because it really is so impactful. Obviously not just the work alone, but just to see the results and just to see like how in giant quotations for those listening, like minor tweaks make such life changing differences and and just seeing how we all tend to just be in our own way. And what does it look like to just really go back? I just love that frigging word to embody.
 
 that groundedness or anything like that. And that kind of leads me to this other area of your life that I think is so important to acknowledge, which is the somatic piece. And, you know, we've brainstormed so much around like, how does that fit into the arts? How does that fit into movement? How, how do you explain what somatic blah is? And I feel like that that's also become a word that's just quite cosmopolitan where everybody's some type of somatic, whatever. And
 
 I think that there's just such a sacredness to the work and to the practice. So tell us a little bit more about how you've done your work in the somatic space and what that actually means for musicians.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (32:16.932)
 The word somatic comes from the word soma, which is means of the body. And it somatics is a is a broad term for any body work, any body modality. It's not necessarily something specific. There are lots of modalities that exist within the somatic field. Some of them are
 
 therapeutic. Some of them are specific to trauma and trauma work. Alexander technique and body mapping are are in the somatic under the somatic umbrella, but they're more of an education piece rather than we consider ourselves educators as opposed to therapists. The way that the way that I'm describing it right now is that
 
 therapy and education run on the same road and their lanes are right next to each other and sometimes the road is going in the same direction and sometimes the road is, you know, the lane split off. What we want to make sure is that we know which lane we're in and, you know, so I really, you know, I think
 
 It should be told I just finished a somatic trauma therapy certificate to to explore more in depth the nature of the nervous system, polyvagal theory, the ways that our sympathetic nervous system elevates and takes us into fight, flight, freeze and dissociate, you know, these these natural protective responses.
 
 and how our nervous system organizes around threat. And it's been a very interesting process to then translate that into the arts and see, you know, to think about performing and thinking about performance spaces and thinking about teaching spaces. You know, one of the most direct examples of this is that when we move into a panic response, all of our senses
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (34:43.46)
 change, the way in which our brain interprets information from our senses changes. One of those is our hearing. And as we move further and further into our threat response, the way that our brain interprets sound, we lose our sensitivity in the middle range and we pay more attention to higher pitches and lower, lower sounds. So like the crickling of a
 
 or the crunching of a leaf or the growl of the tiger that's sneaking up behind us. Well, think about your very first day in aural skills. And that, right, right, for an instrumentalist who's never been in a vocal class and ever learned how to sing and it's, Karen, please sing a minor third off of this pitch.
 
 Karen Cubides (35:26.346)
 Trauma immediately. Yeah.
 
 Karen Cubides (35:40.298)
 Absolutely not.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (35:40.324)
 Please, please match this pitch. You know, and it's like suddenly, wait a minute. Why can't I even match pitch? Because we've gone into panic and, and our, our entire oral system, our ability to hear and produce sound and match pitch, which we sort of take for granted are actually really sensitive skills that
 
 Karen Cubides (35:44.65)
 Mm -hmm
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (36:09.38)
 we cultivate as a musician and go right out the window as soon as we go into a panic response. Like our nervous system says, no, I don't need that right now. I need to dial that down because I need access to these other frequencies. And so it's been work like that that has helped me have a more
 
 in -depth view of what we do as musicians, as what we do as educators, to really think about what kind of space are we creating when we're teaching? How much space are we allowing for the whole person to arrive? And are we giving them the best space for their learning to happen? It's been really fascinating.
 
 I could tell you tons of stories, you know.
 
 Karen Cubides (37:12.906)
 Thank you for healing me. I was like, my God, that makes total sense because I'm like, what was happening? And then, you know, you got to the point where you're like, my gosh, am I just like tone deaf? Can I not hear things? Is this why I'm out of tune? Like what's happening? And absolutely it's your nervous system just shutting down. Be like, we're not doing this in front of everybody. Like enough is enough. So yeah, thanks for sharing that. That's huge.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (37:29.892)
 Right. Yeah, it's been life altering for me. And I really do think it's kind of the next area that I'm headed in is to further my training in the somatic practices and becoming a somatic practitioner, which, you know, more tools in the back, more information that's available.
 
 to me to use in teaching and teaching individuals.
 
 Karen Cubides (38:04.17)
 So you've been doing work with universities, work with individuals, you've had your own cohorts. What do you feel like is next? What are you excited about for Embodied Now that this is your full -time focus, both the research and the execution of, what can we look forward to?
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (38:24.516)
 The next thing that's kind of on the docket is developing...
 
 educational pathways. You know, I'm learning from the community. Musicians don't have a lot of time and this training process takes a long time. We're working on the tissues of the body. It's not just, I can take one six -month class and boom I'm good. The nervous system and neurological time is very different than, you know, journeys around the
 
 around the clock. So we I'm working on providing more opportunities to work at your own pace, work within your own time frame to learn the material. So creating more access to the material before you get to the point where it's time for us to work together on a one on one level and we start developing teaching skills.
 
 and you know get into the more teacher training aspect. So the podcast, getting material out there. There's a blog that's going to come out soon that will run, you know, coincide with the podcast. And hopefully more conference visits, university residencies where, you know, I have the opportunity to work with more students.
 
 and get, get the seeds of this work planted sooner. You know, I think that, that one of the problems that we have in this field and in the field of somatics in general, but particularly with Alexander technique and body mapping is that we've always taught it or marketed it in the space of injury and injury recovery, treatment and prevention. And.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (40:33.124)
 There's so much more to this work. It really lets you become superhuman in the sense that you learn how to leverage your neuroplasticity and your mindfulness to make sure that you're practicing at the right time, the right time for you. We sort of say, well, you practice when the time is in the day. But some of us are morning people. Some of us are.
 
 middle of the day, people, some of us become really creative at night, you know, learning, learning that 9 a is not a good time for me to be in the practice room. 9 a is not a good time for me to take a private lesson, you know, and being able to listen and honor that within your body, you know, that's your truth. You know, no one, no one should ask you to conform and become something that you're not.
 
 We want to create environments where we're capitalizing on someone's uniqueness and not requiring them to assimilate to the tradition. And, you know, it's if we can start that sooner, my goodness, what is our field about to become?
 
 Karen Cubides (41:51.273)
 Yeah. So good. Obsessed. yeah. No, for sure. More conversations, more language. I mean, can you imagine like how cool it's going to be for these next generations that are already on the path to being healthy to just have more language for how they learn best or for what they need or what recovery looks like for them? I mean, if we could.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (41:53.092)
 A lot healthier. A lot healthier.
 
 Karen Cubides (42:13.002)
 eventually get rid of, you know, this injury cycle that a lot of people live in. I mean, what amazing long, long careers could we expect? Like all of this is just so life -changing. So thank you for all this work that you're doing and for sharing all of this. I mean, I know it's, it's a lot and it's complicated and it can feel sometimes like, you know, convoluted, but I think you're, you're making such, such an impact in the community already. And, and I'm excited for people to hear more about you, to hear about this podcast and the blogs and just all the things. I mean, I really appreciate your.
 
 educator brain because you make everything so digestible. And I think that that's really important in this space because it could feel pretentious. It could technically not feel inclusive at times. So I just I like that there's room for everybody in this work that you're doing.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (42:58.212)
 That's the goal, I think. It's really the goal. Yeah.
 
 Karen Cubides (43:02.474)
 Yeah. So what can people expect from this podcast as we kind of wrap up?
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (43:07.652)
 I think we've got more coming. I definitely think we've got more coming. We're gonna have some dedicated sessions to unpacking some of this material more specifically, like what really is belonging, what is shame, what does it do to your body? Diving further into what is Alexander Technique? Let's unpack some of the mystery around this. Let's unpack some of the myth.
 
 Same with with body mapping. Let's let's let's get these more as you said, more digestible, more mainstream, more applicable. Let's let's develop ways that this is directly that can directly benefit you. I'm excited about this idea of mental fitness and really taking the the nerve, the neurology of this. That's not the right word.
 
 The neuroscience of this, there's the right word. The neuroscience behind this work, you know, learning to leverage it, learning to understand it and use it to our advantage. I think with all of this, we can really get somewhere and quickly, at least that's my hope.
 
 Karen Cubides (44:28.394)
 Amazing. Well, thank you for sharing all of this. I'm so excited. I really am still thinking about the superhuman part of that and what would a grounded version of that look like and how cool that this work allows you to move in that direction from a place I think of wholeness versus productivity. So I just have so many more topics in my mind already where I'm like, my gosh, we can talk about this, but no, we should wrap it up.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (44:51.428)
 Yeah, yeah. So thank you so much for doing this and participating in this format for me. It's very helpful. I work so well with someone. It's hard for me when I'm just sitting by myself and I need a problem to solve or I need the interaction. It's really very helpful for me. So I'm very grateful and looking forward to more.
 
 Karen Cubides (45:03.21)
 Yeah.
 
 Karen Cubides (45:16.842)
 Yeah, no, my pleasure. I'm so excited to be here on the front seat and conversation with you on all this stuff. Like I feel already so enriched and I just can't wait for, for people to listen and to give us feedback. So if you haven't said this Shawn, but I'll just say it like, if you guys have questions or thoughts, like please reach out, you know, your DMS on Instagram are always open. There's a contact form on your website, embodied .com. The, social handle is the same embodied. and yeah, we're always posting and, and just there hanging out. So come say hi, please.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (45:45.028)
 This is why you handle all my social media marketing. Thank you.
 
 Karen Cubides (45:47.178)
 It's like, please come talk to us and let us give us topic ideas too. Like, I mean, I love hearing from people and, and knowing like, what could we talk about like that, you know, it makes our job even more fun.
 
 Shawn Copeland (He/Him) (46:00.324)
 Yeah, yeah, what's not clear? What do we, where's the next place to dive into? You know, it's what are the questions? Yeah, what are the questions that need answering? Yeah, I can't wait. Thanks so much.
 
 Karen Cubides (46:05.514)
 Mm -hmm.
 
 Karen Cubides (46:10.986)
 Yeah, thank you.